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Significant changes Shooters Handbook/Range Ops (2010)

RO Committee Clarifications 2010 Summit (Jan 2011)

(Compiled by PaleWolf Brunelle, RO Committee - SASS Life #2495)

What's the call?

Shooter has already shot their rifle and shotgun. They are now beginning a sweep type pistol sequence. The 1st round out of the 1st pistol is a squib. They hand the gun off.

Where does the shooter start with the second pistol - Where the 2nd pistol was supposed to be or where the 1st pistol was supposed to start, or does it matter as long as it follows the proper sequence?

Either would be okay, unless the shooter wanted to shoot it dry and reload five on the clock to avoid the misses. In that case, the shooter would need to start where the first shot should be. Then reload for shots 6-10. Same as if a shooter jacked out a rifle round during the shooting string. Shooter's option to take the miss (es) or RE-engage the same target (s); then reload at the end of the string. If the shooter opted to NOT reload the functional revolver, the misses would then be at the END of the string, OR...take the misses for the 1st revolver and pickup on the 6th shot with the other. There are a lot of people who can load 5 faster than 25 seconds worth of misses (this is done quite often at State, Regional & National matches).

What's the call?

Procedural calls are the most misunderstood calls I see. I've seen them not called because even the TOs thought that more than one person needs to spot it for it to be called. I've even seen / heard TOs say after a shooter committed a procedural , "did you see the procedural", when spotters all said "No". The TO went on to say that there was a procedural but since spotters didn't see it, "no call". So here is another quick question: Does a "P" need a majority of spotters to be called?

Answer: The Spotters are the authority as to determining misses. They can be questioned by the T.O., but the bottom line is that they make the call when it comes to misses. It's a different story when it comes to Procedurals'. In that case, the Spotters "Assist" the T.O. It is the T.O. that determines if a "P" should be awarded to the shooter. That determination should take into account what the spotters input is. Normally the T.O. would accept the input from the Spotters. But, there could certainly be a case where the T.O. had a better view of the situation. In such a case the T.O. would not be bound to report the "P" to the Scorekeeper.

What's the call?

Shooter returns a pistol to the holster after firing 4 of the five rounds. The hammer is down on an expended round but there is a live round left in the pistol, then repeats this action with the second Pistol.

Do they get 2 misses only (they did it with both pistols) or is there a 10 second safety?

Correct response is 2 misses

Inadvertently leaving unfired rounds in a revolver is a miss unless the round is under the hammer, then it is a Stage Disqualification.
SHB pp.14 & 23 / RO1 p.16 / RO2 p.9

PENALTY OVERVIEW

5-SECOND PENALTIES
Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A “miss” is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm.
...
• Each missed target.
• Each unfired round.
• Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake.
• Each target hit with “illegally acquired” ammunition.
RO1 p.24

What's the call?

Main Question:

If a shooter was in the middle of a stage and one of his ear plugs fell out, can s/he stop, and request a reshoot due to safety concerns.

Secondary question was:

If a shooters safety glasses full off, or slipped to a point that they were no longer protecting the eyes, can s/he stop, and request a reshoot due to safety concerns.

Answer:

In the past I've seen ear plugs come out, and the shooter just put them back in and continued. I am certainly in favor of safety, and I'm sure that many will think me too callous, but it seems to me that it is on the shooter to correct the problem on the clock. Hearing protection is NOT mandatory, so I don't think a restart is in order. If it were eye protection that came off or were never in place, then I would stop the shooter, and give him a restart.... however, I think that a 10 Safety would be in order.... after all, it is a safety issue which is MANDATORY, and safeties carry over.

I would also stop the shooter that for what ever reason was shooting without glasses. If you are running the timer then you too can stop the shooter, as can anyone. In fact, you ought to do the "Right Thing"... that does NOT mean that the shooter gets a free ride. The ultimate responsibility for eye protection falls upon the shooter... If his/her gun belt broke and a handgun fell OUT and hit the ground, the shooter would have to pay the price.

The main issue was Ear Plugs, which should be handled differently than eye protection.. but once again I find that we are talking about another obscure situation. In the thousands of shooters that I have seen at the line, I've never seen a pair of glasses break and fall off, I have seen a shooter that forgot his/her glasses, and it was caught by the alert T.O. before the stage started.

This is NOT an official ROC position at this point...... it is ONLY my personal opinion.

28. Hearing protection is highly recommended and eye protection is mandatory in and around the
shooting areas. While small, period glasses look great, full protection, high impact glasses
are strongly recommended. Such protection is recommended for everyone when in the range
area, and eye protection is mandatory for spectators when within direct line of sight of steel
targets.

The role of the Range Officer is to safely assist the shooter through the course of fire.
Coaching and constraining the shooter from unsafe acts are expected when appropriate,
minimizing procedural and safety penalties whenever possible. Proper coaching or no
coaching at all is not considered RO Interference and therefore will never be grounds for a reshoot.

It is expected the Range Officers will be the responsible parties for observing and
resolving all safety related matters occurring in the loading, unloading, and firing line areas.
However, any shooter who observes a safety infraction not seen by the Range Officer's
should call the infraction to the Range Officer’s attention, at which time the matter will be
resolved.

Snakebite

SASS RO Committee

What's the call?

Shooter leaves Loading table with pistols holstered, rifle in one hand, (Stoeger style) SxS SG in the other. T/O sees that SG is closed as shooter approaches stage. Shooter stages SG & attempts to open it with rifle in hand, lays rifle down & opens SG & Stages it (at which time the T/O notes it was unloaded), then shooter stages Rifle. T/O ask LT- RO if they knew if the shooters SG was loaded when shooter left the table. LT-RO said they didn't know. T/O then ask spotters what they saw. Spotter said they saw shooter move to stage with the SG & then open it . Spotters are unsure of what if anything to call.

**Note - (Stoeger style) SxS SG is hammerless and with the lack of external hammers, if the action is closed, it's cocked. **

Please check your answer below and think about your reasoning to support your answer.

a) Procedural

b) Minor Safety

c) Stage Disqualification

d) Match Disqualification

e) No Call

The Correct answer is: (c) Stage Disqualification
(if shooter would have stopped & opened SG or stopped & ask for assistance then the call would be (e) No Call - shooter earned the SDQ with continued movement with a cocked firearm)

Same scenario as above, but with a mule eared SG that T/O can confirm the hammers are down?

a) Procedural

b) Minor Safety

c) Stage Disqualification

d) Match Disqualification

e) No Call

The Correct answer is: (e) No Call Again, as long as the chamber is empty.

Applicable Rules:

22. Movement is not allowed with a loaded, cocked firearm. Movement is defined by the

basketball “traveling” rule. Whenever a shooter has a loaded, cocked firearm in hand, at

least one foot must remain in place on the ground. 1st violation will result in Stage

Disqualification; 2nd violation will result in Match

Range Operations Basic Safety Course (page 22)

Changing location or leaving the designated loading area with a cocked gun/gun w/hammer down on live round - SDQ

Pocket RO Card (Line 13)

7. De-cocking may not be done to avoid a penalty if cocked at the wrong time, position or

location once a round has gone down range. NO gun may be de-cocked on the firing line

except by pointing it down range and pulling the trigger or while under the direct supervision

of a stage officer. The penalty for de-cocking is a Stage Disqualification.

Shooters Handbook (page 23)

12. A shooter with firearm in hand shall never be allowed to move with a live round under a

cocked hammer. Movement is defined the same as “traveling” in basketball. Once the firearm

is cocked, one foot must remain in place on the ground until the firearm is made safe.

Shooters Handbook (page 23)

Question 2:

Since T/O could confirm hammers down

• Shotgun

Safe to leave the shooters hands.

• Empty, action open

Safe for movement shotgun in hand only

• Action open, round in chamber or on carrier

• Hammer(s) fully down on empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed.

Range Operations Basic Safety Course (page 18)

What's The Call / RO PDF Archives

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Charlie T Waite: RO Instructor

Overloading the rifle - Rule Removed:

For the past several years the rule dealing with overloading the rifle has been a hot topic. Lengthy discussions regarding this issue have taken place at the TG Summit and at most major TG gatherings. In each case, the overwhelming desire of the TGs and the Membership at large has been to remove this unfair rule from the SASS Rule Book. Overloading a rifle on a stage is not a safety issue. The safety issue comes into play if the shooter has any rounds left in the rifle after he/she has fired the rifle and committed to the next gun. Changing SASS rules can ONLY be done by the TGs or the WB. After numerous unsuccessful attempts to get this issue resolved, the WB has decided to MANDATE the change. They do this with the complete backing of the SASS RO committee, and I'm sure with the majority support of all SASS members. Should the shooter realize that they have loaded too many rounds and safely ejects those rounds, it’s a no call. Expect an announcement to this effect in the June Chronicle abolishing this "Double Jeopardy" rule. It will be in effect at this year's EOT... Defining The Rule: